Driver to Driver - A Stokes Trucking Podcast
Episode #9 - Driver Mental Health
On this episode we're joined by Charles Ballard, driver of truck #685 and Tyler Howell, Director of Safety for Stokes Trucking. We discuss mental health with Charles and Stokes Trucking's employee medical benefits with Tyler Howell. Please check out this article published by Pride Transport - https://www.pridetransport.com/news-and-events/to-end-it-all-american-truck-driver-suicide
If you are struggling, here are a couple hotline numbers...
National Alliance On Mental Illness (NAMI) Hotline:
1-800-950-6264
24/7/365 Crisis Hotline
1-800-273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
1-800-273-8255
On this episode we're joined by Charles Ballard, driver of truck #685 and Tyler Howell, Director of Safety for Stokes Trucking. We discuss mental health with Charles and Stokes Trucking's employee medical benefits with Tyler Howell. Please check out this article published by Pride Transport - https://www.pridetransport.com/news-and-events/to-end-it-all-american-truck-driver-suicide
If you are struggling, here are a couple hotline numbers...
National Alliance On Mental Illness (NAMI) Hotline:
1-800-950-6264
24/7/365 Crisis Hotline
1-800-273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
1-800-273-8255
Welcome to driver, to driver, a Stokes trucking podcast on driver to driver. We will discuss everything related to trucking. And put a stokes trucking spin on it stokes trucking doing the right thing since 1979.
Mark:Welcome everybody to episode nine of driver to driver a Stokes trucking podcast I'm your host Mark lover I'm joined again this episode by my cohost
grace:grace lover
Mark:This episode is going to be focused on driver mental Wellness I didn't really know when I started doing the interviews for this episode that's where it was headed But after spending several hours interviewing Charles Ballard I realized that's where we needed to go with it he was over here a couple of weeks ago We spent about five hours Doing the interview He did want to talk about that That was the reason kind of the reason he wanted to come on the podcast He's a fan of the podcast for one but he has dealt with depression himself for a few years now And he wanted to talk about that Charles brought a Really good bottle of Johnnie Walker double black and me and him each had a couple drinks You can hear me slur a time or two in this segment And it was because it was the end of the night we were coming up on midnight when this was recorded He'd been here for four and a half hours and he needed a little liquid encouragement to really talk about what we talked about And he's actually listened to the segment and he's fine with it being broadcast It's really important After recording that with him then I started doing some Googling and realize that there have been probably more than once through my career where I've made a career change and I probably didn't really need to make a career change I was probably depressed the career change is what made me feel good I thought I needed to change the scenery Really I probably needed some counseling was what I needed we've found some resources Grace do you have some things there
grace:So pride transport published an article on their website titled to end all American truck driver suicide in June of 2020 And it basically goes into the struggles truck drivers can have while doing their job whether it's depression and anxiety It's lots of Suicide And they go into trying to recognize the signs of depression And Charles talks about this that once you start recognizing the signs you need to get help because it's past the point where you need it
Mark:The big takeaway for me from his interview was if you think you need to talk to somebody you do by the time you have that thought where you're like man maybe I'm just depressed and I need some counseling Once you have the thought that maybe you should talk to somebody you're beyond the point of being able to think your way out of it and I'm pausing Wow The cat is very vocal about driver mental wellness
grace:Need the cat translate app
Mark:You can't have a cat in one of our trucks we don't We have a notepad policy Once you think you need to talk to somebody you do need to talk to somebody Tyler in the second segment we'll get into the fact that our insurance does provide some resources for that as I was Googling I found that truck drivers are actually The fifth highest occupation for suicide which after reading about it make sense but it was I was really surprised by it probably because you just don't you don't hear about it a lot
grace:Middle-aged white men in America are the highest group of people to commit suicide And I don't want to get all too political but our culture it's a taboo especially for men to talk about There are mental health
Mark:their feelings
grace:It's it's taboo and it's seen as weak to go for help if you're a man but it isn't
Mark:Yeah it makes sense because driving is a lonely profession quite often You're if you do have a family you're gone for them for extended periods of time A lot of times it's hard to have a family There's a very high divorce rate amongst truck drivers and you've got nothing but time To think and overthink And although Charles says said and this you'll hear in this interview that for him it helps him He enjoys it He it gives him really gives him something to focus on nonstop all day long So there's some pluses there too I know this episode's going to be I hope I feel like we're starting it out Serious It's a little more serious than what we have been but I think it's again something that's really important that we need to discuss in the open
grace:Yeah And it it needs to be discussed often
Mark:Yeah do you have the national suicide Hotline
grace:So the national suicide prevention hotline number is+1 800-273-8255 And the national Alliance on mental illness hotline is one 809 five zero six two six
Mark:And again whether you're on our health insurance or not if you think you have a problem please call someone whether it's one of those numbers or it's somebody at the office or it's just a friend you need to call someone and talk to them tell them what your thoughts are Where we want to prevent something it needs to be talked about ahead of time So please do
grace:it's preventable
Mark:Every one of them is preventable None None of them are accidental sorry to get so deep on you guys this time I it's it's a little I struggle with seriousness and with Not joking but that's my kind of my outlet is laughter has been for a long time I like to laugh at myself Mostly I like to laugh your mom like
grace:I was listening to the podcast and Charles' wife Mindy practice She listens to air biscuits I do too I like your biscuits
Mark:I talked a little bit about Charles needs some liquid encouragement His wife came with him she's on the podcast with us She was his DD that night That's why because he knew he wanted to have a couple drinks so he could loosen up and talk about this stuff She was there She's great She's really been You won't you guys probably won't ever hear the whole five-hour conversation I had with them but it was very obvious to me that she has been his rock That's what's really he's gotten counseling and he's uses some medication but really what keeps him On the straight and narrow is his lovely wife Who's a wonderful person We had a really good time that night and I hope everybody takes something away from this conversation with Charles Thanks again to Charles for opening up about this It's not an easy subject to talk about he's been with us about two and a half years He's super happy here and I'm I feel so fortunate that he was comfortable enough with me to open up and talk about it So before I go any further it's further down the rabbit hole here here's our interview with Charles Ballard We started talking about how you deal with mental health on the road
Charles:dealing with mental health on the road There's like the coping mechanisms that I have developed for dealing with my mental health on the road which is depression with generalized anxiety that's what I was diagnosed with That's what I medicated for And right now I have to be medicated to hold my
Mark:So diagnosis was it a counselor or was it your
Charles:it was uh it was my GP my primary caregiver my primary caregiver Has a license to practice some psychology
Mark:Okay
Charles:And he has a licensed to prescribe medication and he does work with therapists and other general or general psychologists when it requires he how's the questionnaire that I go through and off that questionnaire decides whether or not the medication is working in the questionnaire mainly revolves around My feelings in the last month over in around whatever is going my general practice is I I try to be self-aware of my triggers in a behavior and I can notice the behavioral pattern I try to notice the behavioral pattern in myself and when I'm trucking that's easier to see because I either go super hard on it Where every single day I will be clocking and at 10 Oh one or 10 and a half and 10 hours And one minute after I clock out And I will drive for as many as those 11 hours as I possibly can get away with but I will be pushing myself as hard as I possibly can the entire time in spending zero time thinking about anything else And she hates it when I go into that My wife notices it when I do that because she tells me that I am being very distant
Mindy:Yeah Yeah I'm like what's going on
Charles:or I go into a very lazy mode where I am fighting myself to not have a 14 hour rest break
Mark:So somewhere in the middle
Charles:is healthy Yeah
Mark:place
Charles:You were talking about having a 24 hour clock and having a basic 24 hour clock and not running off of your drive clock as much And I'm trying to do that more often
Mark:Yeah one thing I think is a little dangerous for with us for us we've made the decision as a company that we want to do Early morning deliveries the drivers like we asked them way back when when we started paperless logs how do you want to handle this Do you want us to try and schedule your deliveries at 10 in the morning So you can continue to leave here leave the yard at eight or nine in the morning And the consensus was no schedule them for 6:00 AM so we can beat traffic getting to where we're going That makes sense But to do that then you have to leave the art at 5:00 AM Right
Charles:four 30
Mark:now things generally go so smooth that you leave at 5:00 AM on day number one and you're done at 6:00 PM day number one and then the next day you can leave at 4:00 AM and then you're done at five And then the next day you can leave at 3:00 AM And so the day continues to back up and back up We have a few drivers that do that To this point safely but by day six they might be starting at midnight or 1:00 AM And I don't think that's safe I just don't
Charles:according to the current medical journals it's not
Mark:Yeah Yeah I have done similar right especially going quite often when I go trucking I try and take the gravy I take take the easy load so I'll go straight to Stevenville and back Well if nothing goes wrong driving a Stevenville and back I can leave here at 10 30 on day number one And by day four it's three 30 in the morning when I'm starting My day like I have is backed up a lot That is not safe for me It's just not because I'm not falling asleep I've driven 11 hours I'm going to be up for two or three more or maybe more All of a sudden I'm really only getting five and a half or six hours of sleep clock says I can go Let's go I don't think was good I don't think it is good
Charles:And I I've gone through that too part of my medical card right now is I'm required to use a C-PAP due to obstructive sleep apnea
Mark:We're finding more and more drivers that require C-PAP and you know just want to be able to run the hotel loads So moving forward a hundred percent of our trucks other than the local guys are going to have APS to try and mitigate that
Charles:no I'm like that was just the thought I know that my general Because I I have the standards for my own mental health when I'm going through stuff and sometimes I can talk it out with my wife
Mark:So your GP is who prescribed you It sounds like you're aware of your triggers and you're going to try and essentially standardize your schedule if you can I mean it's not a perfect system where you always can do that but for the most part especially with our two or two trips to the
Charles:coast
Mark:you pretty well can start the same time each day it's really dependent on starting on time the first day so that's all good Do you think overall Well Oh one other question I want to ask you before you went further have you thought about further therapy or are you okay with just your GP helping you through this
Charles:I have thought about further therapy There is online therapy that's available and I know our insurance covers some of
Mark:it too
Charles:and on the general it does cover some of it
Mark:I'm sure a lot of that has changed substantially since COVID because a lot of people couldn't go see their therapist All of a sudden they had to figure out how to do it over zoom or
Charles:Well not to plug anyone on the podcast but there are online therapy that has been working for a lot of people for a while because of the demand for the modern world a lot of some of the podcasts I listened to are actually sponsored by them
Mark:better helps one of them Yeah I haven't used and I'm not endorsing anything but yeah
Charles:Yeah I'm not endorsing better help either because I I'm not I haven't used them but I have suggested them to a couple different people and it comes to what I have worked through in my own self because I am not I'm not the same person that I was when I was 12 and no one is and I'm not really the same person that I was at 25 I'm turning 41 on Sunday or Monday I'm turning 41 on Monday And in the last five years alone I have grown as a person to the point where like Being on the road as a driver especially with a small company like Stokes it's been markably easy to manage the stress level that I'm going through
Mark:Do you think driving helps you
Charles:depends on the day as it general does as general driving does help me because of the fact that like it is a steady consistent mind you is like it's a steady consistent attention that I like I have to If I'm driving I constantly have to have attention on my left mirror What's in front of me my right mirror to what's going on on the dash uh watching my speed RPM and all that And it's a like I can be a meditative form that way with a podcast that I generally listen to which are general news which I've been since COVID I've been backing off on the general news quite a bit I've been trying to hit just the high points of the news because that's depressing But I have been listening to a lot more science and a lot more medical podcasts since COVID started and a lot more comedians And I have been more a little bit more politically active and what I've listened to in along that lines
Mark:give us your top five podcast and you don't have to go deep into each one I just want to know what's your top five
Charles:okay this American life Adam Savage risk body and Mark Marin
Mark:Okay
Mindy:And of course
Mark:You left you left
Charles:Oh Stokes I I listened to NPR NPR is what started me on podcasts do you remember car talk with click and clank
Mark:You bet
Charles:Yeah I started listening to podcasts because of them because they had their show on Saturday
Mark:Yup
Charles:Yeah And I was working or dealing with whatever else on Saturday And every time I caught them it was like download our podcast Anyway I started listening to podcasts because of them in general And they were even like the first NPR podcasts to go
Mark:out
Charles:But I started listening to them I started listening to this American life which is has been the number one podcast forever or off and on Uh
Mark:I listened to um well I listened to Rogan No gosh can't remember the
Charles:this week in tech
Mindy:Your biscuits That's what I
Charles:Oh Leah I they're not my they're one of the backups
Mark:Yeah I usually listen to Freakonomics radio lab Rogan Although I haven't listened to him as much since I started doing it since we created our own
Charles:Yeah Rogan puts out so much
Mark:It is a lot of content It's three hours you know once or twice a week There's a lot there And Although with him you may or may not listen to Penn Like I don't I'm not into fighting I don't listen to the MMA ones at all but anyway Do you listen
Charles:to him like going deep dive into psilocybin
Mark:Yeah Yeah I do That's that's what I'm most interested in when he's got w when he's got a scientist or guys that are talking about a mind altering drugs things like that That's that's what I'm really interested in on his podcast and comedians I'm about halfway through him and Tom Segura
Charles:did you like read the new MTMA study
Mark:No I'm not that in like here's here's a a lot of people will find this very hard to believe neither me or my wife have ever taken a single drug We drink and I've smoked for years which Or should it be considered drugs right But like marijuana any hallucinogens anything like that We neither of us have we have zero experience with it
Charles:they're really fun
Mark:because I'm like some anti-drug person
Charles:Yeah
Mark:no people I hung out with or they were drinkers
Charles:choosers
Mark:Yeah yeah yeah But yes
Mindy:Cause I have a work that test So I can't
Mark:Well well that's part of for me I started driving truck as soon as I turned 21 So I've been subject to random drug screens for the last 23 years I just haven't done it And that's a lot of what has kept me
Charles:I understand the cultural norm of listening to like Joe Rogan and him listening to him Talk about eating a huge edible and sitting in is a sensory deprivation chamber for four hours
Mark:I'm way more interested in in listening to him when he's got Tulsi gabber gone or you know a politician or a comedian I can't remember the two scientists the one guy Well he's had Jordan Peterson several
Charles:times
Mark:some of the guys that question Our origins things like
Charles:that
Mark:yeah Yeah I'm interested in that but I like I like radio lab and my wife if she's in the car with me she hates it because of their cadence because they sound like NPR She hate eight that with a passion
Charles:played at time and a half
Mark:I don't
Charles:know like if she's in the car played at time in the half and see if she can deal with it Cause it's like cause I listened to everything in time and a half And if it's like one person monologuing I'll do it too
Mindy:My brain can't register
Mark:lot of Wondery podcasts I don't have a Wondery subscription but I listened to other podcasts American history Tellers I I've been I've been bingeing that I'll binge uh like I bench cereal you know in one day I've done criminals really good Those kinds of I'm I'm really I I got into not only cereal but then I got on in crime writers on which was all about cereal Yeah
Mindy:did you listen to S town
Mark:yes S town was really good I like I like those where it's eight or 10 episodes all about one story And it's really I love bingeable
Charles:podcast
Mark:as you know as much as any dailies And then there's a couple of NASCAR podcasts I listened to because I'm a redneck I'm a hick I've got a SIM racing rig in my in this room with us All my kids are like Oh yeah
Charles:I'm sorry I follow the Porsche
Mark:whatever
Charles:Uh I no I don't I I will watch a Porsche circuit or an F1 if it's on I've tried to watch NASCAR I watched him when I was a kid I
Mark:I I didn't grow up Like my dad wasn't really into it or anything I grew up but I remember watching it when I was little And then I really got into it in the late eighties and early nineties and nobody I went to college with had any interest in it at all I don't know I just always I've been into it we've gone to a few races Me and my wife if you go to a race
Charles:I've been to dirt track
Mark:No no go to uh go to an actual either an Xfinity or a cup race It's uh you cannot dirt races I I love dirt races too there isn't Jack out here but back you know back in the Midwest there's tons of them you
Charles:just really want to do that
Mark:you can't get the concept of the speed they're carrying Vegas is a really good one especially the last time I was in
Charles:as uh are they doing plate races the restrictor plate
Mark:They still do restrict your plate at Daytona and Talladega Vegas Vegas Isn't a restrictor plate race It's a it's a mile and a half but they're entering the turns in Vegas around 185 miles an
Charles:hour
Mark:and the best way to to see this speed was the last time I went to a race it was Vegas Xfinity race we're in the garage and cup practice the big guys are practicing on Saturday afternoon And so there's like garage garage and there's this little chunk of the track you can see right here you know that's maybe five car lengths long right in the middle And they're going past Yeah it was truly a you could not focus on it because they're they're doing 180 through this little 50 foot space You could see to be there in person to take the whole thing in it is it is a completely different sensory experience TV can not do it justice Oh I listen to NASCAR podcasts That's where how we ended up here so before we go do you have some advice for someone who's maybe struggling or thinks they may may be struggling
Charles:If you're having problems where you notice that you're having problems you are beyond the point where you should be seeking help
Mark:you should immediately
Charles:you should immediately start seeking help And I know that some of our I think Tyler is technically bound by HIPAA
Mark:he he would actually know better than I since he has a degree in human resources
Charles:Oh yeah
Mark:I'm just a truck driver Yeah He's got a bachelor's degree in HR
Charles:Oh okay Well if you're struggling with mental health you can always reach out my phone number is on the list If anyone ever needs to call me there are other resources available there's of course Tyler can point you in in a direction that our insurance cause he pointed he helped me out a couple of weeks ago with an insurance question to point me into a direction for insurance there are other resources online that you can of course use the biggest mental hurdle for a driver with any sort of mental health problems is realizing that if you're having problems you can't fix them by the time you're noticing them
Mark:by yourself
Charles:by yourself Yeah the analogy is always you can't out-think a thinking problem If you haven't problem thinking you can't think your way out of that it requires outside resources to do and if you get to the point you can always there are people in the company you can always call me I am a very blank echo Walco I am I'm a very dumb wall
Mark:Well and you've got some experience with it So so you you probably know where to direct someone Tyler
Charles:Tyler honestly Tyler has resources through our insurance that he can point you towards and it's one of those mental health questions that if you're having serious issues you cannot think yourself out of a thinking problem I mean that's one of the old sayings within the recovery community
Mark:If you're feeling down or depressed you should call someone and talk to them
Charles:period Because by the time you notice it
Mark:You need to call
Charles:you need to call someone
Mark:All right That's Well thank you for coming in and spending all this time Oh one other one other really quick off topic question I have is Stokes trucking The longest job you've had
Charles:in driving
Mark:No in general you've been here for almost three years
Charles:I worked for Walmart for almost seven
Mark:Oh okay Well we'll beat Walmart
Mindy:Most likely
Charles:just depends
Mindy:job you ever had though
Charles:This is the best job I've ever gotten paid for
Mark:You don't have to lie
Mindy:it actually is
Mark:Oh okay Well thanks
Charles:Uh like
Mindy:he actually likes the people that he works with even though he works alone
Mark:he likes both of them Huh
Charles:no all three of them me and myself and I no like no I like Stokes I like working for Stokes because of like yes I have four managers but I usually only have one at a time Because it's either Jimmy you Mike or John Scott
Mark:I cut that
Mindy:he's horrible with names
Charles:I am horrible with
Mindy:them He carries sometimes remember my sister's name I only have one
Charles:You have two sister-in-laws
Mindy:true
Charles:no working for Stokes in general has been like working for Stokes has been probably the best job I've ever had because of the fact that like where I'm at in my life I've worked through a lot of stuff before this and trucking in general Stokes is a dedicated route In a large company the comparative and I Stokes is going through a lot of growing pains at the moment in general we are not quite the daddy's running four trucks and we got four drivers and we got four loads every single week And it's a B and C and that's all we're doing and nothing has ever gone wrong because daddy's running those four loads and we're making like four grand a month or whatever it is I mean it's not we're not that small but we're not Swift where I'm not like the when I was working for Swift There was more than one time where I was sitting waiting for loads for more than what was reasonable to the point where like
Mindy:you know when you're going out you know when you're coming back
Charles:Yeah And it's like reasonable it's reasonable in a month that that I know Or in two months that if I have a dentist appointment and I always try for a Monday for those because those were the easiest to get off if I have a dentist appointment in month I can call you or I can call Jimmy or just call the office and hit two and I will talk to someone in front of the computer sometimes
Mark:awfully not sitting at a dock
Charles:Yeah Hopefully not sitting at a dock but I will be talking to someone that can schedule me and we'll have enough flexibility in the schedule so that if I am not available for a day a couple of weeks out that it does not cause a huge problem
Mark:Yeah one Company I worked for way back when the owner told me the hardest growth for a trucking company is between 30 and a hundred trucks
Charles:Yeah I believe
Mark:that's where we're at
Charles:Yeah
Mark:There's there's just things change It's pretty easy to get up to 30 And then there's some really dynamic changes that have to happen to try and keep that 20 or 30 truck feel but make the next jump up to where you need to be to Yeah And it's really hard to manage
Charles:I'm wondering if it's with the new markets the new load markets that it's going to be easier or harder to do that
Mark:I don't know you know Amazon has Change the dynamic and trucking somewhat they're utilizing anybody who will pull their trailer There's no limitations on size or or safety It seems like either
Charles:Cause they like if they lose one out of a thousand loads Oh well
Mark:Yeah But they've they've changed the dynamic just for shippers too Cause they're kind of a big bully all of a sudden you know it's them and Walmart slash Sam's club that are really driving the market If you cut those two out all of a sudden there's a major shortage of freight So I'm not sure I I mean I think there's always going to be a niche for a Stokes trucking for for someone that's on the smaller side And it might change where all of a sudden the really hard place to be is between a hundred and a thousand Because you're way bigger You're way too big to be a niche carrier like a soaks trucking but you're not big enough to bully Amazon or Walmart You know they they're they're not going to notice that you're there So maybe where we're at right now is good We've had talks the management team we've had talks about where we want to be We didn't put a a cap on ourselves and our
Mindy:time to grow
Mark:yeah our our goal is 10% growth which means three or four trucks this year and three or four trucks next year But pretty soon 20 years from now now you're talking a hundred plus trucks I don't know if that's where it will be here or not but if we don't have If we don't have a goal for some growth if you're not growing you're dying
Mindy:Yup
Mark:Right
Charles:Well I
Mark:so so you want to move forward some and especially because our our largest customers want us to continue to grow with them So to continue to provide them service and grow with them we have to have some some natural organic growth because otherwise the only way we grow with them is to cut somebody else out And we don't necessarily want to do that either and become less diversified Charles thank you so much for for being so giving with your time and sharing with everyone Mindy Thank you so much for putting up with his dumb ass
Mindy:I try I try I
Mark:really try We really enjoy having you here And I'm really glad you came on the podcast and talked about things that aren't easy to talk about
Charles:I've I've gotten to the point with a lot of it if my well yeah it it does make me who I am but once I get past my own social anxiety with someone I am I'm a huge open book because I've dealt with like Well with the trauma that I've gone through for long enough that I can recognize it in other people before they do a lot of the time as long as I'm past the social anxiety itself I can talk to someone about it but I do have that social anxiety and like the general anxiety that I go through because like even though I work for Stokes and I worked for you guys for two and a half years ish and I planned on working for you guys for another no
Mark:that's the wrong answer
Charles:I was trying to figure out what what 65 minus 40
Mark:was it's about 24
Charles:24 ish Yeah for the next 24 years or I mean give or take well yeah cause I don't know what the
Mark:give or take 20
Charles:give or take Yeah even with the length of time that I've known you and I've known Val considering I drove for Val like my first ride with Stokes was with well he did my toast test drive with him and I honestly thought he was a yard dog
Mark:You had no idea who he was even
Mindy:know he was on an interview
Charles:Yeah Val got me a cup of coffee while I was talking to Tyler I had no idea
Mark:that's Val So the previous episode to this one we talked about our mission vision and values and our our number two value is servant leadership And that's that's foul is he's like the definition and the epitome of servant Thank you again Charles and Mindy for joining me
Charles:you're welcome. Thank you for inviting us to your lovely home and letting me drink the alcohol I bought.
Mark:anytime. Welcome back everybody Thanks again to Charles Ballard and his wife Mindy for joining me for that segment and sharing his story There was some really great insight in there and also good advice again if you think You need to talk to somebody Charles he said in the segment his numbers on the list call him he'll help you But also Tyler Ty Walker me whoever Mike Larson Jimmy Val whoever you feel comfortable with talking to about if you're struggling please call reach out to them And If they can't help they'll get you to someone who can so grace what's coming up next on the podcast
grace:Next is a segment with Tyler howl And do you guys talk about the health benefits
Mark:Our insurance benefits at Stokes trucking we went Pretty deep into all of our various medical benefits medical dental vision Also we talked about there's counseling available If you need counseling if you're having any mental wellness issues So we're going to hop right into this next segment with Tyler was there anything you learned listening to it Grace I love how you just blink your eyes blink twice for yes Blink once for now Here comes the segment with Tyler Howell, we don't have a title for Tyler. We talked about that a little bit. Yeah. But he's more than that. I'd we just haven't really created my titles easy. We haven't created a title for Tyler. He's like safety. I'd actually honestly, call him a CFO. He's like our chief financial officer. He really takes care of her money and he's our director of safety, human resources. Anyway, here's a segment with Tyler Hall. And we're here with Tyler Howell. Again, Tyler is our director of safety. Also takes care of our billing account receivables, payables, things like that, make sure everybody gets paid each week, which is nice. And also our human resources director. You have a degree in human resource. Don't you Tyler?
Tyler:I do. I, yeah. Yeah, I do. Yeah. I've got two bachelors. So one in management of human resource and then one an operations management.
Mark:You have a master's as well,
Tyler:And then I have a, master's an MBA.
Mark:all from,
Tyler:So I did my undergrad for, at USU and then I did my master's program with Western governors.
Mark:You got your master's while working full-time at Stokes trucking. Didn't
Tyler:I did. And I got my bachelor's while that Stokes. So see, I started working for Stokes in 2007 and I was just starting out. My, would have been my sophomore year up at at the university and Boyd had called me up. Said
Mark:Boyd, crochet,
Tyler:crochet. I used to be a district dispatcher who was also my uncle and he said, Ty, we need somebody doing safety. You interested in the job. And I had no experience in trucking. You know, I didn't have a clue what he was talking about. Safety. Sure. I need a job. I'm this poor college kid looking for work. I went over like that day or the next day to meet with them. And they told me about the job and what the hours would be. And they're like, do you want it? I was like, okay, deal. So I started working for Stokes as a sophomore in college. And Val was good to me because he'd let me do my own schedule. I, and I'd work around my classes. So I try to stack my classes in the morning, be done by 11. Get over and work the rest of the day so that I could still get a full week's work in. So I did that until I got my bachelor's kept working for Val pretty soon thought, am I going to do with my life? Am I going to stay here forever? And and so that's actually why I went back and got my master's because I thought to myself if I'm going to leave, if I'm going to go try to get into a different industry. I probably ought to have a little more education. So I went back, did my masters, and it was about the time when I finished my master's program which I did in, it was a two year program I did in a year. So it took me a year to get my master's and right as I was finishing, that is when Val asked me what my plans were for the future. And he's convinced me to stay. So here I am 14 years in, so
Mark:You and I are partners in the business with Val now. And the future plan is for the two of us to take over management and Val and Julie right off into the sunset at some point. So we've been working towards that for the last one or five years, I guess five. Isn't it? Is it 2016?
Tyler:Yeah. Yeah.
Mark:When we started,
Tyler:I think so.
Mark:Here we are.
Tyler:we are. And who knows if I will ever totally be out. I, I don't think he wants
Mark:No, he's going to be, he'll end up driving local for us and there'll be like Frank Fermin,
Tyler:Yeah
Mark:he'll be 80
Tyler:It's just saying, what do you need?
Mark:Oh, I can go deliver that.
Tyler:it's true.
Mark:All right. So I wanted to talk a little bit about some of our benefits and specifically. Our health insurance benefits. I happen to be one of the people that doesn't participate in our health insurance. I have health insurance through my wife's work at Utah state. Educate us a little bit about what we offer for our employees and what it costs them to participate.
Tyler:Perfect. I think this is probably one of the things that sets us apart from a lot of other trucking companies, not to say that there aren't other businesses that do this. But they're few and far between you just don't hear of it. And what that is our benefits package. We're very benefit rich at Stokes trucking. And a lot of that falls in the health, dental vision. I mean, if you've ever gone out there and tried to get health insurance for yourself or dental, you know how expensive that is it's ridiculous. And I don't, nobody can really afford it. But we offer a hundred percent company paid health, dental vision for our truck drivers and their families. And that's the big difference. A lot of companies will offer it for the driver, but we not only cover the driver a hundred percent, but their family as well, which means there's no payroll deduction. You can have you, your wife and your. For kids and it's not going to cost you anything if there's no payroll deduction there. So I think that's a huge benefit. And like I said, other companies, I just. I just don't really know of any trucking companies that do that. So just diving into our benefits we'll start with the health. We use Regents blue cross blue shield, and the plan that we have is an HSA plan. typically with an HSA plan, you see a high deductible because the health insurance companies like regions, they want you to be a little smarter with the way you use health insurance. It's about being a consumer and really shopping it out. Because not everybody's going to charge the same price, right? So they want you to be smart. Oh, what's it going to cost if I go here or what's it gonna cost if I go there. And that really we're an HSA kind of comes into place because it makes the individual the insured more responsible with how they use those benefits and how it's going to help them. Whereas a traditional insurance, you just, you go wherever and you hit your deductible and you're done right. You hit your out of pocket max and you're done. So this is a little different, but there's a lot of upsides to an HSA as well, because if you are smart with your benefits and how you use them and you shop around whether it's for prescriptions or the doctors you go to. It can end up saving you a lot of money. So we'll get into that. So,
Mark:So HSA stands for
Tyler:savings account and the way that a health savings account works is it's essentially a well, it's a savings account where you've got a debit card and you can use the funds in that account. For any kind of medical expense, right? Prescriptions, doctor visit a copay. You can even use it for your dental vision, so an eye appointment, you can use it. And the great thing with an HSA is you can put pre-taxed dollars into that account. So it saves you from having to pay tax. And so drivers can elect to. Put money into that account every year. And the federal government of course puts a limit on that. So for a family at 70, honestly, this year it's$7,200 that a family can put into an HSA. And I, again, that's pre-tax so they can take that from their gross and then they don't have to pay any taxes on that money, but they can use that now, now for the whole health costs. The other great thing is you never lose it. So again, if you're healthy and you're smart with your benefits that money's there year after year. And when you get to where you want to retire, you can roll that over into a, essentially a retirement account. And while it's in the HSA, you can actually invest it so it can grow on its own and make a little money for you while it's sitting there like an IRA would.
Mark:That's great. You mentioned you don't lose it. I think a lot of people here when they hear high intellect deductible, they think a cafeteria plan. Me and my wife were on one like that. At one point in our lives where you had to spend the money every year, that's not the way it is with the HSA. One caveat to the HSA is you can't just withdraw money. If you do that, you have to pay your tax rate. Plus a penalty. I believe maybe it's just your tax rate. I can't remember.
Tyler:I don't remember what the penalty is either, but yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you're essentially setting it aside for health expenses. So you can't just go and pull it and try to buy a car with it,
Mark:yeah. And the good example of by using pretax dollars is if you're at a 25% tax rate, but you're using pre-tax dollars to pay for medical expenses, you're essentially paying for those medical expenses at a 25% discount. right
Tyler:Yeah. Yeah. So it's a great way to do it. And like I said, the insurance companies really love it because it does, it makes the user a little smarter with how they're using their benefits, which then in turn saves the insurance company money. And then we can get lower premiums better benefits for a little less money. So it's, it helps all around. It makes it so that we can actually offer these kinds of benefits. Another thing that we offer on top of the health benefits is a tele-health program and. I guess most guys probably are pretty familiar with telehealth now because of COVID right. You couldn't go into see a doctor. See, you always had to do it by phone. We, before COVID we even offered tele-health and it's a great resource, especially for a truck driver, because you're out on the road, you can't get into a hospital or you're trying to schedule around your runs to get in and see a doctor. But. Most of these minor things that people go to doctors for can be resolved through tele-health right. And the way that works is, say for example, you've got a rash on your arm or something like that, not sure what it is, not sure what you need to do about it. You can use an app on your phone, dial in a doctor will call you back and you can either just do a voice call or a video call, and they can look at the rash and. 95% of the time determine what it is and what they, what you need. They can even prescribe you drugs or prescription through your online visit. And what that does is it saves you a whole bunch of costs because there's no copay, there's no doctor visit nothing going towards your deductible. And this telehealth feature is again, a hundred percent covered. So there's no cost to a driver for using it. And there's no limit on how often you can use it. you and your family can use it as often as you want. And I always see it as the first line of defense, right? Again, no reason to rush to a doctor and pay a copay or PIR or pay an emergency room. Fee, which is going to be crazy expensive when you can first get a doctor on the phone or video column. And if they can't help you, you're not out anything. The worst thing they're going to say is, okay, like we need a little more information going and see your physician and then you can, but at least, and you've now made that decision. Hopefully to save you a little money and maybe get it taken care of without having to go in and see somebody else. So it's a great benefit.
Mark:100% free you, you could do a full doctor's visit and not have any out-of-pocket pocket expenses at all, unless they give you a prescription.
Tyler:Yep, exactly. At that point you would then pay for the prescription. But your doctor visit a hundred percent free. And again, that goes for anybody in the family
Mark:and you can do it from anywhere
Tyler:from anywhere from your truck. So you're not feeling well, call up your doctor on the phone. That's the way to do it. So yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think it's such a new concept that not many guys get behind it.
Mark:Do we have much participation? Do you know.
Tyler:So this is the third year we've done it. And the very first time we did it was years ago. And I think same thing, because it was such a new concept. Nobody got behind it and the utilization was terrible. I think it was like 5%. And so we said scrap it. Nobody wants to use it. And then we, and then last year we decided we're going to try this again. And. We were a little smarter. We put a little more information out there to get guys, to make guys aware of it and to get them interested in wanting to use it. And we had to actually ended up with a really good participation last year. I don't know what the percentage was, but. Enough to where that it was worth keeping around. And for the guys that use it, they love it. I've used it myself. Not for myself, but my family my wife has used it. It's definitely the way to go. I don't know why anybody would. Just run to the hospital without first trying it out.
Mark:Wonderful.
Tyler:So that really covers
Mark:what's benefit. Do you, can you speak to that at all?
Tyler:Yeah. The prescription benefit is fantastic. So typically the way it works is your prescription cost is going to be based on the type of drug and. Who makes it really so like a generic drug you're typically going to pay a 10% is your fee, right? 10% of it, of the cost. If it's a name brand 35%. And then if it's what they call non-formulary, which are your more expensive, rare drugs, right? If you're a PRI pride, more something like diabetic or something like that, might be getting something like that. And you're paying up towards 50%. But the a R prescriptions are fantastic. Guys, what would normally cost say, 20 bucks guys are paying 15 cents, it's it really is a great benefit. And not only do we get the benefit through regions but again, you can shop it out. So maybe Regents isn't the cheapest. But we also use a clever RX, right? If you're familiar with good RX, you could use that, but clever RX, we've got a group number. You can put that app on your phone and search it. That, that drug, that you need your prescription. And again, you can shop, you can compare was Regents, can give me the better price or should I use this clever RX and go with, whatever's going to save you the most money. And we did that. For the purpose of providing guys drivers more options. So they're not forced into just paying a single fee, they can be a little smarter with the way they use it and hopefully saving a little money.
Mark:Awesome
Tyler:One thing real quick that I'll mention with Regents our plan as well because it's a small group they really focus on wellness So there's a lot of great resources there for individuals as far as making healthy choices you can go in and do a biometric screen find out how you what you where you should be in where you are on your BMI and what have you glucose you name it but they all also offer what they call an EAP And it stands for employee assistance program And this is probably one of the coolest benefits that they offer with our plan not too many people know about it but it's something that if there's issues either at home or in your family it's worth taking advantage of because again it's a hundred percent free So a few of the services that they offer Through this is counseling any dependent can or yourself can get up to four confidential sessions with the counselor for free now that they have certain providers you have to use so you have to call them make sure you find out which providers qualify for that But at that point you can then go and schedule it and get four free sessions they've got a 24 hour crisis helpline they offer free legal help identity theft recovery If that ever happens to you they'll help you clear that up mediation So if you need free counseling for mediation they offer that even financial help believe it or not they offer Free consultations and a will preparation if you need to produce a will they'll send you a template that you can fill out and have signed and notarized and just make it a legal document So Everyone
Mark:should have a will by the way every everyone if you were 21 You need a will I cannot overemphasize that everybody should have a will
Tyler:So if you're worried about the costs or getting that done Use this program because it's free they'll send you essentially as a standardized form that you can use and fill out and then you again you just have to get it signed and notarized And now you've got a will something that you can use
Mark:so I want to back up on the counseling a little bit I I think this is just my opinion Mark docking the real effects from COVID are yet to be seen And I think it's going to be mental health especially our the younger generation which many of our drivers have children that are the same age as my kids between the ages of 10 and 30 And it I feel like the mental strain of COVID has been hardest on Them because they haven't been able to socialize like they normally would And I'm afraid the real effect is coming and it's coming a year or two down the road from COVID and everybody being cooped up and locked up And I see I didn't notice it very much I get out and go drive in and life went on for me We were busy at work Yeah
Tyler:Yeah For me same thing Like nothing Yeah Really changed my routine didn't really change work home life sure Didn't quad as much but it didn't really affect me but for kids Absolutely I think that's who it's affecting the most because they're losing that social aspect that are now at home instead of with friends
Mark:when they really need to develop too when it's important for them to be doing
Tyler:So absolutely If they've got kids that are They can see maybe struggling or having a hard time with that take advantage of this even if you only do the four free ones and don't continue after that at least there's something there that can help
Mark:talk to someone ask for help keep in touch with your children And if you see if you see a danger sign don't worry about don't worry about the
Tyler:cost Yeah Yeah exactly Just get that just know the resources there and come in ask about it If you're not if you're not sure how to get ahold of someone
Mark:Yeah Great I guess we didn't talk much about were you going to talk about dental or vision at all
Tyler:and go over it real quick Again there's seems to always be less focused on things like dental and vision just because of cost Everybody knows what health insurance costs but nobody really pays attention to dental or vision But her dental benefits I think are as good as you can get it is going to look up the benefits here real quick So our dental benefits are great Again a hundred percent covered both the driver and their family or employee in their family deductible on an individual 50 bucks family 150 And the great thing is you get an annual benefit of 2000 per individual but they also have a feature of rollover benefits meaning as long as you Take part in some kind of preventative service meaning you go get a cleaning once a year And that's all it takes just one preventative service a year You can roll over unused benefits for the following year up to$3,500 So if you're getting your cleanings and this is for each person right so your child say you're taking your kids to get their cleanings next year They've now Could have up to 3,500 in coverage which means if they get cavities or something like that you've got a little more there that can go towards that So it's a fantastic benefit I don't know how many plans offer a carry over but
Mark:I've never heard of anything like that Really
Tyler:yeah It was really cool And and most guys get it I think I'm trying to remember now what it was I want to say this last year So from 2020 because most of our employees do in fact have their preventative services done go and get a cleaning What have you I think it was in total on the group there were something like$35,000 in rollover benefits that we had So guys are using it They're being smart and those benefits are there for when they really need them So it's It's awesome Yeah and all your preventative service services are a hundred percent covered anyways So it's not going to cost you anything to get a cleaning So no reason to stay vision vision is really good as well it's interesting the way they do it but they group the dental and vision together on our plan So dental is through dentist direct and our vision is opt to care of Utah but Again it's through dentist direct So you're trying to use your vision coverage you'll use your dental card but same thing great benefits an eye exam you've got a$10 copay and then the typically the way that works is on your frames Or on your lenses contact lenses you get an allowance So as long as you're in network it's up to$140 If you're out of network it drops to either$90 or a hundred but here's the same thing with and it goes with all benefits shop it out Just because you get$140 allowance doesn't mean go to Opta care to purchase your glasses or your lenses you can get a pair of lenses or a pair of frames I should say for a lot less at say a Sam's club or a Walmart So be smart shop it out Cause you could get them for well under what your allowance is if you'll take the time to do
Mark:it Awesome
Tyler:instead of paying 500 from aftercare
Mark:what's our participation rate in our health plan
Tyler:it's actually a lot lower than you would guess I want to say it's around maybe 30% 30 40%
Mark:Really
Tyler:my wrong Let me think
Mark:I was really thinking it was 75 or 80%
Tyler:Maybe 50% it's surprising And I think there's a few reasons for that Maybe I'm not that surprised either we have people like you who get it through a spouse or we've got some older drivers who may be are on Medicare therefore they don't need the benefits That seems to be the two right So either they're getting it through a spouse or they're old enough now that they're not needing those benefits
Mark:Wow That's surprising and also a commentary on our aging driver population as a whole
Tyler:Yeah
Mark:I was crying in my water to Kimmer Cron Quist there at the office today about I don't know where we're going to get our next Batch of drivers from because if I just think about it just close my eyes and think about it I know a couple hundred drivers just know them I can think of two who have children that are driving truck No no. One's becoming a
Tyler:coming into the industry.
Mark:Yeah.
Tyler:It's and that with even the way we hire, we're looking for experienced drivers, so you typically find somebody a little alert, but even then I'd say average age is probably 50 years old Well that's not a good sign when your average hire is 50 years old, right?
Mark:15 if you're lucky, 15 or 20 years from retirement. Yeah.
Tyler:Yeah. And then what do you do?
Mark:All right. I just. I just drove the podcast right off the cliff. There, here were so great. But wait, I think I, yes, I have that sound effect. All right. Thank you for coming in and telling me more about our benefits, Tyler. It's again. Great to have you on the podcast. Finally. you bet. All right All right That was a great segment with Tyler howl learning a little more about our health benefits that we offer our employees again before we go off into the question of the week grace can you give us the the hotlines
grace:Yes The national suicide prevention lifeline is+1 800-273-8255 That is also the crisis hotline and the national Alliance on mental illness Hotline is+1 800-950-6264
Mark:Wonderful We'll have all those numbers we'll also link that article from pride transport in our show notes on the website and again Reach out to any one of us who works at the office anytime if you're having any thoughts that are making you nervous it shouldn't be ignored a lot of times like you said earlier middle-aged white men It's taboo to talk about your mental well being and it shouldn't be I know you can talk to Jimmy If you talk to Jimmy he'll probably tell you how loud I am in the office at times A lot of times that is I just need to vent And over the last 11 years it's been 11 years By the way I just found on
grace:don't keep track of
Mark:my Facebook memories It was 11 years today when Val offered me a job working at Stokes trucking So over the last 10 or 11 years Jimmy's learned a little bit about my own triggers and how to deal with me So please feel free to reach out anytime All right let's get into QFR What's QFR stand for
grace:question from the road
Mark:What's the question from the road this
grace:week is from Shane Gorder in truck six 73 and he asks will the new trucks have a wide based tires
Mark:And Shane's asking that because he's getting a new truck Grace do you know what he's talking about When he says why
grace:probably a tire that's wider than normal
Mark:So we do have a few that have Wide base most of our trucks and trailers have duels So there's two tires on the drives the ones that actually make the truck move down the road and also two tires back under the trailer in each position So there's eight total front and back We have some drivers that like wide based tires that's instead of a dual two tires there's just one big fat one So it's a wide base The answer to Shane's question is there will only be wide based tires on the new trucks If the driver who's going to be driving that truck wants wide based tires if we do all the math and I've done all the math and we're going to get into this in episode 10 the next episode of this podcast if we do all the math it's a cost savings net cost savings for Stokes trucking Toronto wide based tires However driver acceptance even the wide based hires been out for almost 20 years has not been great And we are not going to force that on Everyone in the fleet the drivers who are running them have their various reasons why they want to run them Some guys think the traction's better I've ran wide base for nearly 20 years Myself I've never thought that most of the time when a driver wants wide base it's for two reasons the trucks are lighter makes their truck lighter by about 300 pounds And they're also easier to chain up Because the tires are slightly smaller You don't have to reach in between the duals when you're changing them up we've put wide base on the USU truck that I drive all the time because I'm a fan of wide base I like wide base Mike Larson who also works in the office and also drives a USU truck after driving the blue truck that we had Asked if we'd put wide base on the new USU truck vowels driven them Like I said I personally I have never noticed attraction difference but there is definitely they're lighter And they're easier to chain Those are the two big things for me That's why I like him The fuel mileage is also better That's where our costs Stokes trucking Our cost savings would come in as in fuel mileage but it's not a huge number like I said it would be a cost savings overall if a driver runs wide base but it's not A monster amount of money in episode 10 actually this weekend Michael Pollock who drives trucks six 93 is going to come And be my cohost and interview me about fuel mileage and all the different things we do at Stokes trucking for fuel mileage We are going to go much more in depth on wide based tires and why those are a cost savings in that episode So if you want to learn more about wide base what do you do Listen to the next episode Make sure you download And subscribe on whatever
grace:I downloaded and subscribed on Spotify
Mark:that's so nice of you to download and subscribe to the podcast You're a co-host of look at you You're such a supporter Everybody look for episode 10 to be out two weeks from a Tuesday the third So I guess that would be the 16th of May No 17th of May That will be an episode focusing on fuel mileage We're hoping to get an episode out soon Where we talked to a couple of our customers still waiting on the big one to get approval from corporate communications to come on the podcast all right, everybody make sure you subscribe rate and review our podcast. And we will see you in a couple of weeks.
Thank you for listening to driver to driver. Uh, Stokes trucking podcast. For more information on Stokes trucking, please visit our website Stokes trucking.com. You can also learn more about us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram at Stokes trucking. The intro and outro music is I can't keep still. The bumper music between segments is fetch me another one, Both performed by the caffeine creek band Driver to driver is a frankfurter studios production